Comments on: Cutting Edge Amish

By: jeremy zach

jeremy zach — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:13:21 +0000

amen. i am who i am because of my multiple failures.

if we want our kids to own their faith, then that means we give them space to figure it out. right? it leaves us as the youth worker in an uncomfortable place, but we can be uncertain and be certain that God through His Spirit can change kids lives, not us.

one can see doubt one of two ways. 1. doubt is a slippery dangerous slope or 2. doubt is a demonstration of humility.

i like the second option. i see doubting as a way of trusting, but others see doubting as a way of destruction.

By: adam mclane

adam mclane — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 05:33:46 +0000

Jeremy. I wonder if we really want to know the answer to those questions? Do we really want to know, as believers, if we’ve invested enough? Do we really want to give our kids any freedom to chose anything?

I am who I am today because I made a rational decision to follow Christ. It was my decision and I owned it from day one. I am far from perfect… but over the years I have counseled dozens of kids who doubt their faith… and I am always left wondering… why is doubt such a bad thing?

If it’s really true what are we afraid of?

By: jeremy zach

jeremy zach — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 03:58:40 +0000

i think the under lying issue is: Do we trust our students? Do we trust that the parenting was sufficient? Did we prepare them enough so they can make it through the “devil’s playground”?
I rather have a high school endulge in the things of the devil, namely porn, sex, drugs, drinking, swearing, “r” movies, vote republican, and have cyber sex in high school then in college. Why? Because in high school they have their intimate relationship (parents, youth pastor, adult volunteer, friends, teachers, coaches) there for them when they mess up. College is such an isolated-psuedo community.

If we give them (the high school students) the freedom to roam (i love the song by Metallica “where ever I may roam”), then they (the students) will need to harness the consequences.

Also the Amish are great parents. I would trust the parenting of an Amish parent rather then a parent who cares more about their work than about their kid. At least in the Amish community, we can be sure that the kid entering his/her Rumspringa had great parents.

I completely agree with this statement: The church is largely unprepared to help kids walk through the stages of adolescent development faster.
why? because we adults in the church who had a Rumspringa and are trying to teach their kids what not to do. (i am generalizing here) these adults are in denial. they want to talk about everything these kids these days are doing wrong, but rarely want to admit what they did at 16. i bet we would be surprised if we asked our church secretary what she/he was like at 21.

By: Ken

Ken — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:45:30 +0000

Interesting thoughts. I wonder if it’s an ownership issue. With Rumspringa and with college, students are out on thier own deciding for themselves what they believe, if they believe, why they believe, etc.

I wonder if all too often we package faith in such a way that it’s all too easy. I wonder if there are some ways we can work towards letting them experience the freedom to ask those questions in middle school and high school.

Do we actually do them a disservice by leading too much? By taking away thier responsibility and commitment because we haven’t given it to them. i.e. withholding.

I wonder how much the conversation on YMX about commitment factors into this as well.

By: Andrea

Andrea — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:57:55 +0000

Nice post, Adam. I think you bring up a lot of good points.
I would even suggest that the fear associated with letting kids screw up can be linked to the fear that the gospel isn’t valid. If you are afraid that your kids are going to abandon Jesus because they discover that “living in the world” is more fun, what kind of Jesus have you been teaching them about? A stale, sheltered, watercolored Jesus, or the one who is worth sacrifically living and dying for each day?

By: Tammie Gitt

Tammie Gitt — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:46:01 +0000

Wow. That’ll make me think. Don’t forget, too, that the Amish are very, very community-oriented – far more than we are. That sense of community, according to what I have read, is a strong factor in youth making the adult decision to join the faith. So, I’d have to wonder how that would factor into an evangelical Rumspringa. I’m still thinking …

By: Amy

Amy — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:13:17 +0000

welp, I was going to ask if you had seen “Devil’s Playground” but apparently you have! My problem with that film and with the Rumspringa concept is that those kids are not experiencing the whole world. Raging parties, getting drunk and doing meth are hardly all the world consists of – certainly not my world. What about fine art, drama and music, great cathedrals, hikes in mountain passes, and so on? Are they really making an educated decision for being Amish? Also, in the meantime, lots of preventable serious damage (pregnancies, STDs, addictions, drunk driving accidents) can happen.

I don’t think there is a formula for how people come to faith. The one thing we all need in order to come to real faith is realization of sin – something which a Rumspringa can accomplish, but can also happen in other ways as well.

BTW – Don’t get me wrong, I admire the Amish way of life greatly and, oddly enough, I am currently in a deep personal struggle that is pulling me towards a more radical living of the Gospel.

By: adam mclane

adam mclane — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:35:30 +0000

abby, i have seen those documentaries. I mentioned two in the first draft of this post but clipped them out for length.

I don’t know how comfortable I am with the concept either. But I am very interested in coming up with out of the box solutions.

I love that invitation you’ve made to your students! I’ve been joking with Kristen that we have a more effective ministry to some of our students in Romeo now than we did on staff… and I think it has something to do with their choosing the faith for their own.

I’ve been talking a lot about kids taking ownership of their faith… I’m not wondering if that isn’t far enough?

By: abby

abby — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:27:17 +0000

adam… great post! my first reaction, i think like many, would be to begin arguing many of the points you bring up. have you seen the documentary “devil’s playground”? it is a very informative look into the rumspringa tradition, which is why when i first read the suggestion that you made above, the hair on the back of my head stood up. having been in youth ministry for 10+ years, i have seen many kids enter into college and find the world more appealing then their “committed relationship” to God. I don’t know of any of my former youth who have stopped all together believing in God, but i know that the majority of them have turned away from the relationship.
for a long time, i have been asking the similar question, but more concerned with the kids who have made their “commitment” when they were 5 or 6 at VBS or in Sunday School. i truly have a hard time believing that at 5, 6, 7, 8-year-old has a full grasp of the idea and the meaning of having a relationship with Jesus Christ. i know adults who don’t have a full grasp of the gospel!
i have said to kids before, when they are ready, where ever they are, they can come and talk to me about what a relationship with Jesus Christ truly, really means.
thinking about rumspringa for kids is super scary, but i like the general concept. thanks for the ideas and words… great stuff for making us think about and question what we know as the norm… although it is broken. super bummed i didn’t pick up marko’s book in sacramento!