Comments on: Changing the metaphor for small church http://adammclane.com/2009/04/02/changing-the-metephor-for-small-church/ Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:00:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: A New Metaphor for Church | MattCleaver.com http://adammclane.com/2009/04/02/changing-the-metephor-for-small-church/#comment-5325 A New Metaphor for Church | MattCleaver.com Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:49:13 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4141#comment-5325 [...] to subscribe to my RSS feed or get updates delivered to your email. Thanks!On Sunday I linked to Adam McLane’s post on using a new metaphor for small churches by shifting from business to farming [...] [...] to subscribe to my RSS feed or get updates delivered to your email. Thanks!On Sunday I linked to Adam McLane’s post on using a new metaphor for small churches by shifting from business to farming [...]

]]> By: Linkworthy - 4/12/09 | MattCleaver.com http://adammclane.com/2009/04/02/changing-the-metephor-for-small-church/#comment-5292 Linkworthy - 4/12/09 | MattCleaver.com Sun, 12 Apr 2009 12:05:41 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4141#comment-5292 [...] Changing the metaphor for small church - Adam McLane advocates shifting from business language to farming language. I completely agree. [...] [...] Changing the metaphor for small church – Adam McLane advocates shifting from business language to farming language. I completely agree. [...]

]]> By: John Purdue http://adammclane.com/2009/04/02/changing-the-metephor-for-small-church/#comment-5236 John Purdue Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:25:39 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4141#comment-5236 As a first-generation-not-farming-the- family-farm because there is not enough money in it to survive, let me poke at your farm metaphor. Farming has lost and not yet regained its sense of stewardship. Factory farms are in and sustainable agriculture is only a question mark. As a first-generation-not-farming-the- family-farm because there is not enough money in it to survive, let me poke at your farm metaphor. Farming has lost and not yet regained its sense of stewardship. Factory farms are in and sustainable agriculture is only a question mark.

]]> By: Joel Mayward http://adammclane.com/2009/04/02/changing-the-metephor-for-small-church/#comment-5235 Joel Mayward Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:24:29 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4141#comment-5235 Adam, I think you're right about the business methodologies being out of date and not working; just look at the state of our economy! :) You've given me a lot to think about, mostly because I'm doing ministry in a larger church (not a megachurch, just large) and we in the leadership are actually wrestling with how to create a culture of sustainability and find our niche as a church in our community. So great post; you've gotten me thinking a lot! Thanks for this. Adam, I think you’re right about the business methodologies being out of date and not working; just look at the state of our economy! :)

You’ve given me a lot to think about, mostly because I’m doing ministry in a larger church (not a megachurch, just large) and we in the leadership are actually wrestling with how to create a culture of sustainability and find our niche as a church in our community. So great post; you’ve gotten me thinking a lot! Thanks for this.

]]> By: adam mclane http://adammclane.com/2009/04/02/changing-the-metephor-for-small-church/#comment-5234 adam mclane Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:58:24 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4141#comment-5234 Joel, I don't think I gave the best example of niche-based churches. It seems I gave examples of things that would work inside a youth ministry... but I suppose in a large metro, those are groups of affinity I could see people drawn to as adults. By way of example, my family drives about 6 minutes to our church. So I couldn't say that we just go to the church that's most in our neighborhood. We chose to be a part of Harbor because it is in our neighborhood AND it touches on our primary affinities... a desire to live out the Gospel tangibly and a desire to reach a community. Do I think large churches don't think enough about sustainability? Absolutely! They are modeling themselves after companies that became hits 20 years ago. My contention is that these churches who use business methodology are actually using the VERY WORST business models out there! There is such a thing as "too big" and not because they can't keep growing, but because they have chosen a poor model. Joel, I don’t think I gave the best example of niche-based churches. It seems I gave examples of things that would work inside a youth ministry… but I suppose in a large metro, those are groups of affinity I could see people drawn to as adults.

By way of example, my family drives about 6 minutes to our church. So I couldn’t say that we just go to the church that’s most in our neighborhood. We chose to be a part of Harbor because it is in our neighborhood AND it touches on our primary affinities… a desire to live out the Gospel tangibly and a desire to reach a community.

Do I think large churches don’t think enough about sustainability? Absolutely! They are modeling themselves after companies that became hits 20 years ago. My contention is that these churches who use business methodology are actually using the VERY WORST business models out there! There is such a thing as “too big” and not because they can’t keep growing, but because they have chosen a poor model.

]]> By: jeremy zach http://adammclane.com/2009/04/02/changing-the-metephor-for-small-church/#comment-5233 jeremy zach Fri, 03 Apr 2009 05:12:27 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4141#comment-5233 wow! We are small church soul-mates. You are totally on. Seth is completely right....small is the new big. I never thought about your argument of sustainability vs. growth. Also research indicates that smaller group have more of an impact than bigger groups. Everyone expects the bigger groups to do amazing things, but no one rarely expects small groups to do great things. I think a small church ministry that can find their specific niche and be comfortable, confident, and clear that God is calling them to that--than small churches would be able to realize that they don't have to be all things to all people. I think mega-church youth ministries models have done a huge dis-service to smaller youth ministries because they mega models indirectly challenge smaller ministries to "multiply". In addition, these mega models expect smaller ministries to fulfill all of the elements in the Great Commission, rather than challenging them to focus their ministry on 1 chapter in Acts. Thanks for this post. : ) Keep it small and simple. wow! We are small church soul-mates.

You are totally on. Seth is completely right….small is the new big.

I never thought about your argument of sustainability vs. growth.

Also research indicates that smaller group have more of an impact than bigger groups. Everyone expects the bigger groups to do amazing things, but no one rarely expects small groups to do great things.

I think a small church ministry that can find their specific niche and be comfortable, confident, and clear that God is calling them to that–than small churches would be able to realize that they don’t have to be all things to all people.

I think mega-church youth ministries models have done a huge dis-service to smaller youth ministries because they mega models indirectly challenge smaller ministries to “multiply”. In addition, these mega models expect smaller ministries to fulfill all of the elements in the Great Commission, rather than challenging them to focus their ministry on 1 chapter in Acts.

Thanks for this post. : )
Keep it small and simple.

]]> By: Joel Mayward http://adammclane.com/2009/04/02/changing-the-metephor-for-small-church/#comment-5228 Joel Mayward Fri, 03 Apr 2009 00:50:49 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4141#comment-5228 @Adam, I definitely don't think you're wrong, and I like the metaphor of a farm for churches. I do like metaphors a lot, and I do have a tendency to just run with 'em! :) Farms have to do with creating healthy environments that can sustain growth, require lots of hard work and patience, are in tune with seasons, and feel a bit more contextual than a large church. I think your appraisal of large and small church philosophies is accurate. Can I push back a little though? The only aspect of your suggestions that I wonder about is the niche-based approach and its connection to sustainability. I could see how creating a tribe of people with similar passions could end up being more of a trend-based and even homogenous church if the leadership isn't careful. I think a church filled only with artists or only engineers would be missing out on something. And there's a good chance I missed your point about niche-based. Any thoughts? @Adam, I definitely don’t think you’re wrong, and I like the metaphor of a farm for churches. I do like metaphors a lot, and I do have a tendency to just run with ‘em! :) Farms have to do with creating healthy environments that can sustain growth, require lots of hard work and patience, are in tune with seasons, and feel a bit more contextual than a large church. I think your appraisal of large and small church philosophies is accurate.

Can I push back a little though? The only aspect of your suggestions that I wonder about is the niche-based approach and its connection to sustainability. I could see how creating a tribe of people with similar passions could end up being more of a trend-based and even homogenous church if the leadership isn’t careful. I think a church filled only with artists or only engineers would be missing out on something. And there’s a good chance I missed your point about niche-based. Any thoughts?

]]> By: adam mclane http://adammclane.com/2009/04/02/changing-the-metephor-for-small-church/#comment-5225 adam mclane Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:41:58 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4141#comment-5225 Joel- like any good metaphor... we have to be careful to take it metaphorically. Sorry, couldn't resist the pun! I think you raise a good point that they aren't mutually exclusive. And I would hope than ANY big church leader thinks and works hard at sustainability after they move on. I really want my point to be this... smaller church need to find a better metaphor to strive after. What I run across is frustrated and disappointed church leaders. I think that if they spent more time modeling their ministries after farms instead business models, they'd be more satisfied in doing it longitudinally. At the same time, I'm cool if you think I'm just wrong! Joel- like any good metaphor… we have to be careful to take it metaphorically. Sorry, couldn’t resist the pun!

I think you raise a good point that they aren’t mutually exclusive. And I would hope than ANY big church leader thinks and works hard at sustainability after they move on.

I really want my point to be this… smaller church need to find a better metaphor to strive after. What I run across is frustrated and disappointed church leaders. I think that if they spent more time modeling their ministries after farms instead business models, they’d be more satisfied in doing it longitudinally.

At the same time, I’m cool if you think I’m just wrong!

]]> By: Joel Mayward http://adammclane.com/2009/04/02/changing-the-metephor-for-small-church/#comment-5224 Joel Mayward Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:55:03 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4141#comment-5224 Adam, couldn't a large church also be driven by sustainability, like having a "mega-farm?" Couldn't a smaller church also strive for growth, to be the kind of farm that actually grows something too? I know the two aren't mutually exclusive--and I don't think you're communicating it as such--but I wonder if it is still not quite as cut and dry as saying that large churches are businesses and small churches are farms. Sustainability seems to be something every church should seek, but I understand how the cult of personality can inadvertently create a culture where sustainability only goes as far as the leader in charge at the time. Adam, couldn’t a large church also be driven by sustainability, like having a “mega-farm?” Couldn’t a smaller church also strive for growth, to be the kind of farm that actually grows something too? I know the two aren’t mutually exclusive–and I don’t think you’re communicating it as such–but I wonder if it is still not quite as cut and dry as saying that large churches are businesses and small churches are farms. Sustainability seems to be something every church should seek, but I understand how the cult of personality can inadvertently create a culture where sustainability only goes as far as the leader in charge at the time.

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