Comments on: What to Say When the Youth Pastor Leaves http://adammclane.com/2009/06/15/what-to-say-when-the-youth-pastor-leaves/ Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:00:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Tony Myles http://adammclane.com/2009/06/15/what-to-say-when-the-youth-pastor-leaves/#comment-5754 Tony Myles Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:12:04 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4579#comment-5754 @ Eric - I know you're being witty, riding this over from my Facebook page, but this is a serious thread. A lot of people (including myself) have been put into this position, and asking someone to lie (as I have been asked to over the years) cannot ever be in my DNA... I won't allow it, even for a Sonic burger. @ Eric – I know you’re being witty, riding this over from my Facebook page, but this is a serious thread. A lot of people (including myself) have been put into this position, and asking someone to lie (as I have been asked to over the years) cannot ever be in my DNA… I won’t allow it, even for a Sonic burger.

]]> By: jared http://adammclane.com/2009/06/15/what-to-say-when-the-youth-pastor-leaves/#comment-5733 jared Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:36:15 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4579#comment-5733 Great discussion. We recently let a number of people go from our staff. We too did the hybels thing. We told people the truth that they did not fit our future direction. People did not want to know why they didn't fit, but appreciated that we were willing to say that much. Great discussion. We recently let a number of people go from our staff. We too did the hybels thing. We told people the truth that they did not fit our future direction. People did not want to know why they didn’t fit, but appreciated that we were willing to say that much.

]]> By: jbrown http://adammclane.com/2009/06/15/what-to-say-when-the-youth-pastor-leaves/#comment-5731 jbrown Mon, 15 Jun 2009 22:18:41 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4579#comment-5731 The other perspective on the severence is where the leadership might be understanding that the fit for the position is not there and offers a substantial severence package to an employee as an opportunity to "agree" with that assesment and own his or her departure. Many times the negotiated communication is as much an effort to help the former employee rather than to cover up and lie. Often, it accurately gives an account while still affording the employee to find another job (without needing to say they got canned). There is one prticularly important point thay Adam makes related to truth... In meetings, we must always operate under the simple understanding that eventually everything will come out. If we behave that way - both in word and writing, we can navigate leaving, being asked to leave or being the party doing the asking with our integrity and God's Glory still in tact. The important thing is to not make sweeping judgements on anyone while seeing from only one perspective. The other perspective on the severence is where the leadership might be understanding that the fit for the position is not there and offers a substantial severence package to an employee as an opportunity to “agree” with that assesment and own his or her departure. Many times the negotiated communication is as much an effort to help the former employee rather than to cover up and lie. Often, it accurately gives an account while still affording the employee to find another job (without needing to say they got canned).

There is one prticularly important point thay Adam makes related to truth… In meetings, we must always operate under the simple understanding that eventually everything will come out. If we behave that way – both in word and writing, we can navigate leaving, being asked to leave or being the party doing the asking with our integrity and God’s Glory still in tact. The important thing is to not make sweeping judgements on anyone while seeing from only one perspective.

]]> By: Brit Windel http://adammclane.com/2009/06/15/what-to-say-when-the-youth-pastor-leaves/#comment-5730 Brit Windel Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:38:18 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4579#comment-5730 Romans 14.19 (out of context slightly)19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Now this is referring to eating and drinking but i think it is valid in how we respond to each other and handle ourselves in the church over all. Do we make every effort in our actions to edify the person and the church in some of the areas. side note, i polled my students today about there thoughts. was pretty obvious they would want to the truth but not the point of hearing it if defamed someone else! they didn't see the reason in letting them know if it mean that their opinion would drastically change of the person/s staying. now this isn't a scientific method of questioning, i only polled 80 kids and 60 of them replied with similar responces... so we are right in saying that the students want the truth but as Adam said, not the gory bits! Any ways, abosolutltly great talk i think, i still feel there are a lot of variables in that go into the situation of telling the truth/or what the deal is/ and how much you disclose and to whom. It takes a wiser man to hold his tongue in times of chatter than to just run his mouth... i love the proverb (Proverb 10.19) that i use for youth pastors and staff who are about to go into a discussion or arugment! "Through many words come TRANSGRESSION, but the wise man will hold his words till it is right!" Romans 14.19 (out of context slightly)19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.
Now this is referring to eating and drinking but i think it is valid in how we respond to each other and handle ourselves in the church over all. Do we make every effort in our actions to edify the person and the church in some of the areas.

side note, i polled my students today about there thoughts. was pretty obvious they would want to the truth but not the point of hearing it if defamed someone else! they didn’t see the reason in letting them know if it mean that their opinion would drastically change of the person/s staying. now this isn’t a scientific method of questioning, i only polled 80 kids and 60 of them replied with similar responces… so we are right in saying that the students want the truth but as Adam said, not the gory bits!

Any ways, abosolutltly great talk i think, i still feel there are a lot of variables in that go into the situation of telling the truth/or what the deal is/ and how much you disclose and to whom.

It takes a wiser man to hold his tongue in times of chatter than to just run his mouth…
i love the proverb (Proverb 10.19) that i use for youth pastors and staff who are about to go into a discussion or arugment!
“Through many words come TRANSGRESSION, but the wise man will hold his words till it is right!”

]]> By: Ken http://adammclane.com/2009/06/15/what-to-say-when-the-youth-pastor-leaves/#comment-5729 Ken Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:31:35 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4579#comment-5729 @Brit I am only getting this from my friend, so I may not be totally accurate. From what he told me, they were saying it as a blanket statement instead of being specific. It sounded more like people were complaining to his supervisor and instead of trying to draw the two parties together, the sup was using this as fodder. I agree that there are times when we need correction from a friend. however, I don't think this was coming from a friend. @Brit I am only getting this from my friend, so I may not be totally accurate. From what he told me, they were saying it as a blanket statement instead of being specific. It sounded more like people were complaining to his supervisor and instead of trying to draw the two parties together, the sup was using this as fodder.

I agree that there are times when we need correction from a friend. however, I don’t think this was coming from a friend.

]]> By: eric http://adammclane.com/2009/06/15/what-to-say-when-the-youth-pastor-leaves/#comment-5728 eric Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:03:44 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4579#comment-5728 I'm looking for a nice gig where I can lie for a few thousand bucks. Tony's price is considerably less - a sonic burger? I’m looking for a nice gig where I can lie for a few thousand bucks. Tony’s price is considerably less – a sonic burger?

]]> By: Brit Windel http://adammclane.com/2009/06/15/what-to-say-when-the-youth-pastor-leaves/#comment-5727 Brit Windel Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:57:32 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4579#comment-5727 @Ken, man that is hard indeed! and gotta be very difficult! not knowing your friends specific situation, but i have been the other end questioning a youth pastors passion/desire/reasoning for youth ministry. it wasn't for the purpose of firing but gauging him and see what his reasoning for doing ministry was! we had a lot of issues with how he was doing ministry/lack there of! i think sometimes those calling into question is ok, but NEVER for the excuse of firing someone. it is so sad how we are like snakes and wolves to one another when ought not be! @Ken, man that is hard indeed! and gotta be very difficult! not knowing your friends specific situation, but i have been the other end questioning a youth pastors passion/desire/reasoning for youth ministry. it wasn’t for the purpose of firing but gauging him and see what his reasoning for doing ministry was! we had a lot of issues with how he was doing ministry/lack there of!

i think sometimes those calling into question is ok, but NEVER for the excuse of firing someone. it is so sad how we are like snakes and wolves to one another when ought not be!

]]> By: Tony Myles http://adammclane.com/2009/06/15/what-to-say-when-the-youth-pastor-leaves/#comment-5726 Tony Myles Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:56:39 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4579#comment-5726 Adam - I caught that... but the majority of your article was "truth" heavy. For a good reason, of course. But I hoped to throw some balance in there. Thanks for receiving the thoughts. Adam – I caught that… but the majority of your article was “truth” heavy. For a good reason, of course. But I hoped to throw some balance in there. Thanks for receiving the thoughts.

]]> By: Brit Windel http://adammclane.com/2009/06/15/what-to-say-when-the-youth-pastor-leaves/#comment-5725 Brit Windel Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:47:08 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4579#comment-5725 @Danny very well put! "truth is better than eloquence~Martin Luther" @Brandon, i know thats where i want to stand in protecting the people and the church! i know some times its necessary for pain but not always. but your point about lieing during an interview is a huge thing. we had hired a guy who had mulested two girls and broken a former bosses nose on the job site. but we were never told by these other churches why he was let go... until we too saw his wrath on some students and having girls over to his how to swim... Adam is right in the fact that the truth comes out and who ever said it above about gossip filling the holes i think is very powerful. @Tony i agree with you completely. my point above was that you can't make a sweeping statement that truth must be told... because there is some stuff that should not be told... "I'm being forced to quit because your pastor is a coward and doesn't like the way i preach and teach you guys, or this staff memeber is being unreasonable with this so i'm just going to go"... truth some times sets people against one another... and i have seen way to often a staff memember who is leaving pulling the truth pin on the grenade and throwing it in before they leave the church. I think that is cowerdly in that they don't have to stay and clean up the mess... but i don't think that is the piece you are talking about Adam! should those remaining be open and honest... i think so to some degree... as i try to justify my thoughts for this i just feel there being so many variables and possibilties that make it complicated to say just disclose everything, somethings or nothing, which all have areas of truth...darn this relativism @Danny very well put! “truth is better than eloquence~Martin Luther”

@Brandon, i know thats where i want to stand in protecting the people and the church! i know some times its necessary for pain but not always. but your point about lieing during an interview is a huge thing. we had hired a guy who had mulested two girls and broken a former bosses nose on the job site. but we were never told by these other churches why he was let go… until we too saw his wrath on some students and having girls over to his how to swim… Adam is right in the fact that the truth comes out and who ever said it above about gossip filling the holes i think is very powerful.

@Tony i agree with you completely.
my point above was that you can’t make a sweeping statement that truth must be told… because there is some stuff that should not be told…
“I’m being forced to quit because your pastor is a coward and doesn’t like the way i preach and teach you guys, or this staff memeber is being unreasonable with this so i’m just going to go”… truth some times sets people against one another… and i have seen way to often a staff memember who is leaving pulling the truth pin on the grenade and throwing it in before they leave the church. I think that is cowerdly in that they don’t have to stay and clean up the mess…

but i don’t think that is the piece you are talking about Adam! should those remaining be open and honest… i think so to some degree… as i try to justify my thoughts for this i just feel there being so many variables and possibilties that make it complicated to say just disclose everything, somethings or nothing, which all have areas of truth…darn this relativism

]]> By: Ken http://adammclane.com/2009/06/15/what-to-say-when-the-youth-pastor-leaves/#comment-5724 Ken Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:35:29 +0000 http://adammclane.com/?p=4579#comment-5724 Great stuff Adam. My heart broke as I was talking to a friend who was telling me about being in a meeting a couple weeks ago where the leadership actually called his "fit" for youth ministry into question. His response was the same as yours. If you are going to fire me, just tell the truth. If you want to go in a different direction, if I'm not fitting what you want, then let's be honest about that. But don't call my passion for ministry into question. Great stuff Adam. My heart broke as I was talking to a friend who was telling me about being in a meeting a couple weeks ago where the leadership actually called his “fit” for youth ministry into question.

His response was the same as yours. If you are going to fire me, just tell the truth. If you want to go in a different direction, if I’m not fitting what you want, then let’s be honest about that. But don’t call my passion for ministry into question.

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