Comments on: 3 Musketeers of Church Staff

By: Mackenzie

Mackenzie — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:57:23 +0000

The idea of people being paid for their education, experience and position is an idea that is not biblical – rather it is capitalist. Capitalism is basically the idea that those with more to offer the chain of production deserve more in return for the capital they put into the system. Status is as much capital as education and time on job.

I believe the biblical example was that the entire community threw their resources (capital) together and made sure that no one wanted – regardless of their ability to add to the chain of production.

In my experience with rostered ministry in my denomination, rostering is “supposed” to grant you a particular level of compensation, including church-run benefit packages. However, in one call, only the ordained minsters received this compensation. My husband was offically called, but because he was in a lay roster, he was denied rostered compensation. Do I care about the money? No. I cared about the fact that the ordained ministers didn’t have to pay for their insurance, got a great 401K contribution, and a housing allowance. Something that the council felt my husband didn’t deserve because he lacked sacramental responsibility.

Now the church is in financial trouble and staff benefit contributions and on the chopping block. Not pastoral benefits — everyone else.

How does that reflect biblical living like that in the Acts community?

By: Linkworthy – 10/18/09 | MattCleaver.com

Linkworthy – 10/18/09 | MattCleaver.com — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 16:03:08 +0000

[...] Adam says that if all church staff are equally valued, then they should be paid the same. [...]

By: Matt Cleaver

Matt Cleaver — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 01:14:49 +0000

Why not use a salary schedule like public schools? Give a set salary commensurate with experience and degree, but not based on “position.” Seems like it would be pretty straight forward.

By: Len

Len — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:46:27 +0000

Here’s a church that does this. The pastoral staff makes the same. It takes work and I think most have side incomes or a spouse works but they are committed to it. http://www.kauaichristian.com

It’s another reason Rick Bundschuh is one of my favorite people.

By: adam mclane

adam mclane — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 15:00:08 +0000

@matt- when you add in cash value of perks (plus perks that come from the congregation) I think people will see that the SP often makes much, much more than the rest of the staff. Yes, I think that’s what I’m talking about. Don’t just say we’re equals from the pulpit… prove we’re equals in how the staff is paid.

By: adam mclane

adam mclane — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:54:58 +0000

Regarding the “this person add more value” arguments for pastors vs. an “equal share for equal value” concept I’m floating.

Are you making a biblical argument or are you syncretising what you know to be true in your culture with what you think the church should be about?

Not sure about that word? Here’s a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism

By: Matthew McNutt

Matthew McNutt — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:53:51 +0000

Mike, I think I’m with you in that I don’t have a problem with the senior pastor making more than me … but it should be reasonable. At my first church, the senior pastor made double my salary – that’s the kind of inequity that Adam is writing about (I think). My youth ministry professors used to tell us that a reasonable expectation would be that the youth pastor makes around 80% of what the senior pastor makes – but I don’t know that I’ve ever seen that done!

By: Mike

Mike — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:43:21 +0000

From my experience (I’m at my second church in five years, with no inclination to move anytime soon) I’ve had two Senior Pastors, both of which have modeled incredible humility and love for their staff. The more I learn from other student minsters the more I realize how very fortunate I’ve been.

I personally have no problem making less than my senior pastor. If someone in the church has a problem 9 times out of ten they talk to him and not me. If there’s a sin issue in the church, my opinion is valued, but I don’t make the final call, he does. If there’s discontent brewing, he’s the one they go after, not me.

I have no problem with my pay compared to his. I know my ideas are valued and input taken seriously, that’s where I appreciate the most equality.

By: Matthew McNutt

Matthew McNutt — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:57:32 +0000

I think it’s easy to say all the different areas fall under the senior pastor, but if that were the case, wouldn’t he be the one to be fired if something major happened in my department? The reality is, if when of my volunteers screws up royal, or one of my assistants, or me … my neck is on the line. I lead this area of the church. Yes, I report to him – but the pastoral staff at my church is very much like what you’ve described Adam, the nine of us are considered a team with equal voices in many ways.

The problem is some of the stereotypes out there; that youth ministry is playing with kids and doesn’t take any training. I have two ministry related degrees, I’m ordained, I’ve served on elder/deacon boards for five years … I am very much qualified to be a senior pastor – it’s just NEVER going to happen because I’m called to student ministry.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say all nine of us should be paid equally – I’ve been here a year, the senior pastor has been here almost three decades, other pastors have been here around ten years … there should be some reflection of that in salaries.

By: adam mclane

adam mclane — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:27:45 +0000

@libby- your comment saddens me greatly. I was fortunate enough to “pay as I went” through undergrad and grad school so I carried no educational debt. And yet my family couldn’t make it on what a church pays a youth worker. I can’t imagine what that would be like with a mountain of debt.

And these denoms wonder why they aren’t growing? They wonder why they lose their best candidates? Hmmm…