So then, I have two questions based on your remark above:
1. Are you saying you don’t believe in Constitutional Rights? (Just asking- not trying to offend here, but I don’t want to assume you don’t – based on your comment.)
2. What do you mean by “serve the community instead of trying to grow their own from scratch?”
I do believe that we should as believers serve the community, but the very church of Acts that was brought up earlier in the discussion did get together to be a community unto themselves also….to serve one another, to exhort, to share each others burdens and to provide for each other, to fellowship. You know – “don’t give up meeting together as some have done.” Also, the money taken up in the church was to care for the fellow believers.

Perhaps I’m missing something here. You surely aren’t saying that the church was socialist because they freely shared, or that the money we have would be better spent on those in need outside of the church instead of those in need from the fellowship of believers. Right??

C. Fetters

Though I don’t share your political viewpoints, I agree with you that the church would be well served to serve the community instead of trying to grow their own from scratch.

However, I’m a little concerned over the socialism comments. Only because the socialism that is practiced today is nothing like it was in the early church. I would have to contend that, in fact, it was more capitalistic in nature. Meaning that it was their choice to share what they had. No governmental entity was taking it from them and “distributing the wealth”. The Christians gave to their own body of believers, and the deacons of that body gave to whomever in the body needed it. It was not a social program to relieve the poor. It was a way to take care of those in the body. No one was forced to give that which he may have needed himself. The Declaration of Independence while supporting a capitalistic form of government did not prohibit the signers from pledging to each other their fortunes and they surely weren’t socialists.

And I quote: “WE, therefore, the Representatives of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA……..FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES,…have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which INDEPENDENT STATES may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.”

(For those that haven’t read the Dec. of Indep. for themselves I’ve only capitalized the words and letters that the writers themselves capped. I wasn’t trying to make a special point of those words, but perhaps they were.)

Anyway, I just wish we would steer clear of comparing the first church to a socialistic system, because of obvious political ties these days. The money shared in the early church did not go to the Government to dispense.

Anyway, thanks for the opportunity to discuss the topic of church leadership and money.
C. Fetters

http://www.chadswanzy.com/2010/04/dear-church-everywhere.html

My contention is simply that most churches invest their energy in stupid places. With all due respect to the musicians in my life, this is one area that I think we over invest. I’d much rather have a happy, healthy, mom who played songs and spent 10 minutes preparing than I would all the bells and whistles of a worship band, lighting, sound mix, seamless worship, and kickass lyrical projection on the screen. 99.5% are not megachurches nor are they worship conferences. But there are a lot of people trying emulate that style.

But apparently I’m alone in that.

As a former non salaried ‘worship leader’ I see that some of the problem is the culture changes in the church. My congregation moved from a piano and song leader and hymn books, to a worship band with power point lyrics on a screen. All of a sudden we weren’t just picking out songs to sing at the beginning of the service – but creating a worship atmosphere, that required often times hours of preparation in bringing songs together, changing keys, writing parts, practicing, creating slides, finding ways to create a flow so as not to disrupt the ‘worship’. What used to be 10 minutes, turned into a part time job of 20 or more hours a week.
That’s great for a volunteer who has someone else in the house bringing in an income to support the family – but when that income was lost (my husband lost his job) – and I needed to help support my family monetarily, I could no longer find 20 hours to complete those ‘new’ worship tasks – along with a 40 hour a week job, the role of mother, homemaker, taxi driver, etc… I had to stop volunteering. If the congregation (church) had offered to bring me on staff – it would have helped my family quite a bit – but that wasn’t an option. And …. I am glad.

That being said, at times I have to wonder – are salaried church workers involved in more than the activities they are paid for? It seems like some paid staff members are at the church during the hours that they are paid – but when the rest of us show up after our day jobs – where are they? Or when they know they are coming back at night for a bible study they are attending (not leading) they take off a few hours during the day – cause they know they will be back. Kind of a sad state of affairs in the Church when we get to that point. Kind of like I am paid to be a Christian.

I spent so much time – working (even though it was volunteer) that when I resigned my position, I realized I had built no relationships with the people there. If I didn’t have that position, I had nothing there. I didn’t know who to talk to anymore – now that I had all this free time on Sunday morning. We ended up coming in and leaving, often times without talking to anyone – cause everyone else was so busy ‘running ‘ the services. That was wrong. I am ashamed that I let it get like that. But sometimes it felt as though if you were not part of the busy-ness, then you were not doing your job as a Christian.

I totally am all for a community of believers who gather to honor and worship God and find ways to bring glory to Him thru serving the community, instead of trying to create an atmosphere in a building and creating overhead to pay for power point projectors and loud sound systems to reach people with a ‘show’ – but actually not having anytime to fellowship with the congregation. I would much rather be reaching out a hand and reaching people with your heart.

“I’m coming back to the heart of worship … and it’s all about You Jesus” is a great song – but so contradictory when it is sung thru the 1000′s of dollars of stage equipment in a show of lights and ‘atmosphere’

Give me a small spot of grass under a tree with the birds singing and the sun shining and this grateful heart doesn’t need a contrived worship setting that someone who is paid created. (I can worship in the rain too!)

Sorry to take up so much space!

Honestly, if all churches in America gave away 20% of their offerings to the poor… we’d live in a country that looked much different.

I think your wrong about the connection between volunteerism and busy pastors. My contention is exactly the opposite. If the pastor refused to do ALL of that stuff he/she is doing, it’d either force people to step up… or the church would stop doing those things.

And just a reminder, the early church describes socialism. Capitalism is not a Christian value. It is a perversion of the New Testament’s view of possessions, personal value, and money. Aspirations of a capitalistic/Christian society is a syncretism with Western culture.