Let’s speak some truth here. This just isn’t right. I hope that they stop treating this magazine as if it were porn… hidden under the counter. What is this 1927?
What do you think? Did this story shock you or do you think the magazine is inappropriate?
HT to Mark
Honestly, I’m pretty shocked.
I personally agree with their theological position (and believe me, I’ve struggled with the theology a lot myself), but pulling the mag was definitely uncalled for. There are lots of brothers and sisters in Christ who believe otherwise. The segregation is ridiculous.
Pulling this magazine isn’t the first time a publication has been pulled. LifeWay has chosen NOT to sell a certain Version of the Bible due to their Southern Baptist roots. Their Board of Directors didn’t feel this new version of the NIV (and its non-masculine / neutral tone) fit with their own Theology. Therefore, they won’t sell it. (source: a LifeWay Sales Associate)
The point is they are a privately owned business that chooses what they will and will not sell. LifeWay isn’t the only place to do this, to be sure.
i know it is important for christian book stores to protect folks from serious “heresies”. but at the same time, it could allow the magazine to be sold in the spirit of ecumenicalism. since it isnt a deal breaker issue, allow it to be sold and maybe spark some good conversation.
i mean they still sell the “left behind” series 😉
Actually their other cover story is what I’m more concerned about. 2008 Most loved Youth pastors?? Who determines that and how is that done?
And what is this a comparison game?
i am not surprised at all. that is one of many reasons i do not shop at lifeway.
When I worked for Family Bookstores oh so long ago they sold anything with a Christian label on it because it was a broad Christian store, LifeWay is a Baptist store, they choose not to.
It’s their store they can sell or not sell whatever they want. And you can choose to support it or not. Yay Capitalism!
America’s #1 Youth Pastor http://www.youthsource.com/ylc/coach_bio.html
agreed len. likewise, it’s a free market system. so, informed people can make informed decisions where to shop!
lifeway has been, as most bookstores do, pulling stuff off their stores that go against their mission & views.. i think it is shallow as a bookstore is about viewpoints and information and you are circumventing that ideal, but.. its theirs to choose and i don’t shop there anyways.
I’m not arguing that they don’t have the right to do this. But they are certainly misrepresenting a large portion of Christianity’s view on women in ministry.
So, it’s their choice. But this position is rather backwards.
Then again, this is a denomination that believes heavily in separating from people because of associations. Gay people work at Disney, so all disney is bad. A college accepts money from someone they don’t like, so they don’t endorse it. On and on… makes for a very small heaven. 🙂
I’m still always a little tiny bit surprised when I hear of local churches that have problems with women in leadership, but I at least understand the underlying debate and still willing to share in life and ministry with those churches (although I suggested a female retreat speaker at a retreat co-op once and suddenly learned I was very much in the minority for being okay with that, which was pretty shocking)
But a store? I guess that’s a lot more shocking, choosing not to have a female pastor in the pulpit is a longer theological debate, but choosing to shun a magazine just seems like bad buisness. But seeing the comments here that it seems to be a denominational store, I guess I can see that, and actually am a litle proud of them (even though I entirely disagree with the underlying belief) that they don’t just put anything out, but it would be nice if they where clearer that it’s a denominational issue and not a Christian issue.
Makes me wish our local christian bookstore would do the same thing with those magazines saying the pope is the antichrist and the shelves and shelves of lame “christian” t-shirts and Jesus junk.
oh and also I hope this causes people to vote with their wallet a little bit.
Who cares?
The Bible is clear.
Woman are not allowed to be pastors.
I don’t make the rules, Jesus does.
I don’t think it was the shunning of the magazine. It’s about a theological stance that they take. The magazine promotes a stance they can’t in good conscience take so they didn’t put this month’s mag on the shelf.
I guess I don’t see what the big deal is. They are taking a stand on their convictions and theological position. A lot can be learned from that where we live in a time today when people want to cater instead of follow.
Just my 2 cents.
Hey Mykel I mean “Jesus,” why not just use your real name?
Yup…you caught me…but is not the bible clear or not?
I actually don’t think the bible is clear at all. Clearly, in the NT women held leadership positions. In fact, I don’t get why women aren’t allowed to hold leadership positions in some churches today.
@ adam mclane: I’m not gonna get into a theological debate here, but the issue in scripture isn’t leadership — it’s spiritual headship. Two totally different things.
Exactly, women should be leaders in the church, that’s not the issue. The issue is women as pastors. The bible is pretty clear as to who God wants as elders/pastors in the church. I have no problem with women leading small groups, or other ministries. But they are not to be pastors/elders as the Word says.
I guess the point is, while Lifeway has the choice to not sell this magazine… people have the same right to not buy from them. Which is why I simply stated that I think Lifeway should change their mind and sell the magazine.
@pastor bill Got a reference for that?
If the issue is a retailer choosing not to sell something they believe is promoting something wrong (by whatever reasoning – moral, theological, etc), it’s a censorship issue. As a private entity, they have the legal right to do that. People shopping there also have the right to know, hence the announcement, I suppose. It really is no different than Wal-Mart choosing to pull certain magazines which it has considered morally wrong (soft porn on the covers) from it’s shelves. Again, private entity choosing what it wants to sell.
I think Lifeway probably defeated its own purpose in opposing the magazine theologically and making it know. In so doing, giving it national exposure. I’d never heard of the book before this, and would never, ever (and still won’t) go looking for a magazine to validate my identity in Christ, or anything God might call me to.
I have to agree with Patti that they have the right to pull the magazine. I don’t agree with their decision but I also would not shop there. Their choice as a privately owned company and my choice as an individual.
1 Timothy 2:12-14
It’s pretty clear.
Cool, so you don’t even allow women to speak in church? That’s pretty clear too. And your church believes that women aren’t saved until they have kids? (v. 15) And the women who come to your church… do they wear nice clothes? Gold or pearls? What about dressing modestly according to 1st C. standards? And do you allow women to braid their hair?
See, the only viable argument is that this passage is Paul instructing Timothy about cultural things in young Timothy’s context. To argue that this is how women are to act in church FOREVER is pretty tough. This Timothy passage is often cited as a micronarrative in denial of the metanarrative of what Jesus’ ministry did for women. To take this tiny verse, apply parts of it to ministry while ignoring the rest reveals the heart of the matter.
Instead, what I see and is what my opinion is based upon, is men who are afraid to open the ministry to women. They are afraid that perhaps they may have to compete for position or even a paying job with someone of another gender.
Playing hermeneutic games in order to preserve power/position/jobs is really not even honoring to Scripture.
Further, what you see in practical theology is vast amounts of the most important ministry are delegated to women in conservative churches… feeding the sick, visiting, teaching the children, on and on. It’s OK for them to have authority over ministries which men are uncomfortable for men… let’s call it what it is. It’s sexism and it time that people stand up against it in all its forms.
I relish in your reply.
Being based in the UK, this discussion on Lifeway isn’t really too relevant. However, I have to say that agree with Adam’s statements on women in leadership. Our church has a female elder and she leads by example.
So how do the passages talking about Christ being the head of the Church and then comparing it to marriage fit into relation with this? Are they completely separate or do they have a connection as well?
Wouldn’t it be like an oxymoron if they had no connection. Wouldn’t that be God having double standards saying that women should submit in one and not the other?
I know I sound like a woman hater and it’s not that at all. I guess my thing is how do we reconcile the 2 examples of us submitting to Christ as the head of the church and then in the same breath how he talks about men being over women in marriage.
Actually the Bible isn’t as clear as you would like to think. The only time “Pastor” as a title is used is reference to Jesus but to us – the title pastor is used as a role, thus we all can have the role of being a pastor. Thus I would say what we have as a Pastor is a overseer, elder, bishop and there might be debate in the Bible if elders can be women …but as to pastoring … might want to check the original hebrew and greek.
Chris- we can disagree. But I think there is a difference between headship in a marriage and serving as the pastor or pastor staff member in a church. I don’t equate mutual submission in a marriage and to Christ with a church at all.
Gerrard- that’s a very valid point. At the same time, I don’t want to get in a semantics game over greek words to the point where we miss the point either.
@ chris, in every instance of submission in the scriptures, it is a mutual submission – as Christ submitted himself to God’s will, so we should submit ourselves to Christ and one another as servants. The ideas are related, as you say, but it’s too easy of a relationship for only one party to it to do the submitting.
Haha. I knew my response would get this kind of a reaction. So let me go a little further in my explanation.
@adam – we can agree to disagree. That’s the beauty of all of this. But I think we are both mature enough to be ok with it unlike some other people who have commented and have had their comments deleted. I respect that about you.
As for my comment. I COMPLETELY agree that submission is 2 way street. That is something that is often missed/ overlooked by many many people. Both male and female alike. I agree whole heartily with that statement.
This is something I have struggled with on and off. It is the way I was brought up but I don’t want to buy into a value/ belief just because I was brought up that way. I want to be true to God’s Word, what it says, and the implications it has on issues and life. So could I be wrong? I certainly could and I’m ok with that. IF in my error I am willing to learn what is right.
Honestly though this may be one of those things we never learn what is right until we get to heaven and can ask God himself if this was just a cultural value or not.
Wait… someone had a comment deleted? Not on this thread.
If anyone has a comment missing please let me know.
adam no the one a few weeks ago. remember their comments kept coming through in email notifications after you set the filter up.
sorry man that was my lame attempt at being funny by bringing it up.
Perfectly fine. Just wanted to make sure there weren’t any missing ones on this thread. –adam
[…] #1 Lifeway, you need to change your mind […]
I disagree BUT if they believe it is heretic, then they need to pull it.
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