Following the money trail on health care

Watch the video below, and deny me the fact that the consevative media has been bought in the health care debate. I hate it when video proves the conservative agenda gone array. Or did Glenn Beck suddenly think that his 2008 experience was a lie?

As a friend said tonight in our small group, “How can Christians be for social darwinism?” It makes no sense to me either. When will the conservative evangelical cheer the Obama campaign for pushing for equality in health care? You know, like in the book of Acts. Or is it that they only believe survival is for the rich? How did believers end up on the wrong side of this discussion? Republicans do make strange bedfellows, don’t they?

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Thoughts? I mean, Glenn Beck couldn’t have flip flopped, could he?






15 responses to “Following the money trail on health care”

  1. Nick Arnold Avatar

    Oh don’t even get me started, socialized medicine is almost as bad as socialized fire departments.


  2. adam mclane Avatar

    You’re right, the system that leaves 40 million uninsured… we should leave it alone. 15% of our population don’t need health care.

  3. Mark Matlock Avatar
    Mark Matlock

    Ummm… Jon Stewart is a comedian. Not a newsman. He takes issues out of context for laughs. I don’t think this segment tells us anything about Beck’s position. It is good humor though! But hey, he had an easy target.

    What is scary…is that the line between what is good reporting, and entertainment is being blurred. (both by Beck and Stewart)

  4. adam mclane Avatar

    @mark- that’s a good point. And it is a little scary to see that he’s become the #1 news source for people 19-25. My whole point here is I’d like discerning Christians to start following the money trail and find out why certain parties are on certain sides of this debate. We already have a system where government controls every aspect of health care… why is the US the only western country that allows for-profit health care?

  5. Shelby Craig Avatar

    If it is so good…then why are Canadians coming across the border to get healthcare treatment?

    40 Million uninsured are mainly the middle class, in which have a choice. Lower class have insurance…MediCare. Or here in TN, TennCare. Or, just walk in the ER, get treatment, don’t pay. I’ll pick up the bill with my taxes.

    There will be far more than 40 million babies that will never be born under this plan and numerous decisions that indicate that a senior citizen’s life is worth less than a health person.

    I guess letting people die so people can be covered is more important to you than leaving it the way it is.

  6. Matt Avatar

    I like how your critics don’t even listen to your argument before they retort.

    I think comparing the lack of healthcare to social Darwinism is spot on!

    I lost my company last year. My wife doesn’t work and my mom was laid of 18 months ago and healthcare is our primary concern.

    If Obamacare passes my family would save $1,000’s; and so would many others who aren’t speaking up as loud as the critical minority.

    I think insurance companies need to check their billion dollar profits and parse that with their ridiculous policies. Hopefully we end up like the other civilized countries out there.

  7. Bradley Buhro Avatar

    I understand that the humorous juxtapositions of soundbites are part of what makes the Daily Show so enjoyable to watch — that’s a big part of the reason why I watch. However, I think Beck may actually be bringing up an issue that the proponents of a public option need to address.

    If we get beyond the soundbites and actually get to the substance of Beck’s complaints in 2008, we’d see that his biggest complaint was the fact that he was rushed out of the hospital without being given time to coalesce.

    One of the biggest concerns people have with any sort of public option is that the proposed reform will only exacerbate that problem rather than fix it.

    After all, look at how President Obama himself has been promoting his goal of reform. In his speech in June of this year to the AMA he said “Make no mistake: The cost of our health care is a threat to our economy. It’s an escalating burden on our families and businesses. It’s a ticking time bomb for the federal budget. And it is unsustainable for the United States of America.” In his op-ed piece in the New York times last week he wrote: “Second, reform will finally bring skyrocketing health care costs under control, which will mean real savings for families, businesses and our government. We’ll cut hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and inefficiency in federal health programs like Medicare and Medicaid and in unwarranted subsidies to insurance companies that do nothing to improve care and everything to improve their profits.”

    Those with a Beck-like experience with insurance companies know how costs are cut – services denied and payments declined. Why do you think Beck had to leave the hospital? An insurance company policy that said in order to cut costs one should not be allowed to coalesce in the hospital. Now we’re being told the solution to the health care problem in America is to cut costs more. Add to that the fact that to my knowledge there is no clear recourse for those who have been denied treatment by the government to appeal to due process, and you have a system that creates very reasonable fears.

    Granted, we shouldn’t allow these fears to keep us from reforming health care in America. The fact is there are millions of uninsured people in our country who wish they had an insurance company to fight with to have their care covered. This alone is cause enough to work towards a solution.

    But you won’t convince those who are opposed to reform by mocking their concerns rather than addressing them.

  8. adam mclane Avatar

    Why is it that a conservative uses soundbytes to prove a point and he is “exposing the truth” while a liberal does the same and it’s “pushing an agenda.”

    Right now, what I see is a bunch of rich people in suits taking fat-cat checks to keep 40 million hard-working middle class Americans from getting fair access to health care.

    I don’t care about the politics of who does it. The system is broken and its time for the people we elected to do something.

  9. Mark Avatar

    I don’t disagree that we need some health care reform. BUT … we don’t want to simply replace one broken system with another, and so far … that is all that would happen from what I can discern from Obama’s proposed plans. Rationing of health care will still have to take place, it is still a form of social darwinism, maybe even more so because policy makers, not the free market, will decide who gets health care.

    As someone who has received socialized health care in two other nations, I like our broken system better. That doesn’t mean I don’t feel we should sit back and not fix the system we have. But it must be done cautiously and wisely.

    I believe American’s are smart enough to figure this out, and we have the values that support some kind of reform that cares for many more than we do now. I admire Obama for taking this on and being tenacious about it, this issue deserves that, but I worry he is doing the same thing that got Bush in trouble, relying on people who think too similarly to advise him.

  10. Bradley Buhro Avatar

    I don’t think anyone accused either Beck of “exposing the truth”, or Stewart of “pushing an agenda.” We accused Stewart of being very funny and entertaining, and suggested that perhaps Beck was voicing a concern that keeps many good-hearted people from supporting a public option.

    Again, let me clarify- I’m not naive enough to count Beck among the good-hearted. He’s being paid to foment fear, because fear gets him both ratings and advertisers. But the concern he raises is one good people share.

    Nor do I think Beck’s concern (that cost-cutting is just business-speak for limiting coverage and denying claims) is necessarily the truth. I hope it’s not. I imagine like much of politics it’s being afraid of an imaginary danger, the sloth saying refusing to leave his house because there’s a lion in the street to borrow an image from Proverbs.

    However, just because the danger is imaginary doesn’t mean the fear isn’t real. I imagine we all know someone who wound up being the cost the insurance company decided to cut. So hearing “We’ll pay for this program by cutting costs” creates real anxiety in a lot of us. If you want us on board, show us how you are going to make sure we don’t see treatment denied because our insurer refuses to pre-approve it. Especially if that insurer is going to be the Federal government, against whom we have, by law, very limited legal recourse.

    You want your bill to pass, address our fears, don’t just make fun of those who are frightened.

    Unless of course your goal is to have a very funny cable “news” show, then poke fun all you want, because we promise we will watch. 😉

  11. Adam McLane Avatar
    Adam McLane

    First, don’t write off colbert and Stewart. They are often doing the job news sources refuse to do. Sure, they use a non traditional format… But bear in mind they are currently the #1 source for news for a huge demographic.

    The bigger question is, why is the GOP so against fixing a system that everyone in the system hates? I think we are still believing that lobbyists aren’t important. Also, when does this become a matter of justice for Christians? 50 million uninsured? 100 million?

  12. Bradley Buhro Avatar

    While it’s true that Stewart is a master at his craft and Colbert may be the most astute satirist since Horace, it remains to be seen whether or not their profound influence over their audience will translate into an influence over the electorate. Yes, they may very well be the #1 news source for people aged 18-34, but people aged 18-34 are the least likely to demographic to vote or make campaign contributions. What’s more, despite perceptions, the 18-34 demographic is also the least likely to volunteer for political campaigns. (Though I’ve not seen a study on volunteerism for the 2008 election yet.)
    Even in the 2008 election where the youth vote received so much press, the 18-24 demographic had the lowest turnout rate of any age group (followed by the 25-34) and (at least according to the Pew Research Center) only swung North Carolina and Indiana for Obama.
    So, while Colbert and Stewart may be influencing the minds and hearts of America’s younger generations, they may not yet be influencing the outcome of elections.
    Which brings me to my second point. Maybe I still haven’t been clear. I’m not opposed to health care reform. I think it may be the most pressing need our country faces. It is _already_ a moral issue for me. That’s why I’m concerned to see that very little is being done to address the fears which Beck’s tirade against our medical system raised. The fact is: for the foreseeable future our congressmen and women will be depending, not on the Colbert and Stewart crowds, but the Glen Beck and Keith Olbermann crowds for their continued job security. What Stewart is doing won’t be enough to swing the debate. And it’s one thing to deliver a speech ridiculing anyone who would peddle fear with tales of “death panels,” it’s another thing to make sure legislation provides a means for an appeals process or legal recourse for those who face denials of coverage from a public option. Give those of us who are in favor of reform something tangible to demonstrate that these fears are illegitimate. Because there are too many anecdotes about care being denied both by private insurance companies and the VA for us to simply dismiss these fears as unfounded.

  13. adam mclane Avatar

    Indeed, I think we are both looking towards the same need from two different perspectives. As a former employee of a big dog health insurance company… I’m just saying I think there is a need to take away medical decisions from private insurers. Their interest is to increase profits by refusing benefits. Even just by making it known that it’s a hassle, they raise profits. At least pushing that towards a more open public forum would be useful.

    The fed already insures more people in America than any other entity. (Even Wal*Mart!) Generally speaking, the benefits given to gov’t employees are pretty well managed. Better than you’d get as a small business/church or individual customer!

  14. Dawn Avatar

    Really. Why don’t you ask OFA where their money trail is from? Or HCAN. It’s all from UNIONS and stimulus money (taxpayer). Why are unions investing? Because they won’t have to pay healthcare and can keep union dues high.
    Have you asked how they can afford to pay people, including college students and ads on craigslist, to campaign for Healthcare through OFA? Where is this money coming from.

    I hate to disappoint, but those of us protesting are being paid squat. You’re just a lemming of the liberal media, do some of your OWN research.

  15. adam mclane Avatar

    Just another name caller. You forgot poo-poo head. I’m a poo-poo head for stating the obvious… everyone hates the health care system as is… except those making billions. Thanks for proving the point, Dawn. Good thoughts.

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