Adam McLane

What the &%#$? When did cussing become OK at youth group?

Andrew Dice Clay
Meet your new youth pastor, Andrew Dice Clay.

Observation is one of my core skills in life. I notice things. Subtle and not-so-subtle shifts catch my attention. Then when I see them in several contexts over a period of time my brain starts to categorize them as emerging trends.

So here is an emerging trend I’m seeing: It’s now OK to use the occasional cuss word in youth group. I’ve been called edgy or over-the-line my whole career for using terms like “crap” or “sucks” or “pissed off” in my lessons. But in the last 3-4 years? I’m starting to feel conservative in this department.

I don’t mean the slip of a word when your shoe flies off and mashes some unsuspecting freshman in the face. I mean– it’s now seen as acceptable to drop a little salt & pepper in your talk to spice things up.

Time out! Before you follow a link to my church website and label myself and Brian Berry as some sort of foul mouthed sailors– read the first paragraph carefully. This isn’t just happening in my youth group. It’s happening in lots of contexts over a long period of time. In other words– I’m seeing it everywhere I visit. (And if you know me personally you know I’m not opposed to the occasional naughty word.) So I’m not throwing my ministry under the bus here– we’re not doing anything I’m not observing all over.

I did a retreat a few years back when a youth pastor, unabashedly, told a group of students to “shut the f&%$ up” when they were talking during the Bible study. I remember leading a mission trip in 2003 and camping near another youth group whom had brought a worship leader & speaker down with them. The worship leader mixed in Green Day songs into his set and didn’t edit the words. And the youth speaker used so many cuss words he got a letter from Eminem asking him to clean it up. OK, that’s an exaggeration. But you know what I mean. 

Two sides of the coin

  1. That’s everything wrong about youth ministry today!  We fail to be different. We fail to create a safe place. On and on.
  2. That’s everything right about youth ministry today! We are using the vernacular of the day! We are majoring in the majors and letting the little stuff go.

What do you think? Have you seen this trend? Is it something you are worried about? Or am I just being an old fuddy duddy? 

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33 responses to “What the &%#$? When did cussing become OK at youth group?”

  1. Becky Durham Avatar
    Becky Durham

    Hm. I’ve seen this emerging in the church overall, I think.

    I don’t swear in front of or to my group (and I try to not swear away from them…but I sometimes do) and I wouldn’t want another adult doing so on purpose (I mean, one of my mission trip drivers last year got scared when a car passed her going about 50 mph faster than she was and she screamed one of the big swear words really loud on accident and that kind of lives in infamy in our group because it was really kind of funny).

    Sometimes students swear and I try to handle that case by case. They know I’d rather they did not, and my spiritually mature students and student leaders know better, but I’m sensitive to unchurched kids or kids who are rebelling, etc., and often just ignore it.

    I’m not a “prude” about it, I guess, but I don’t really understand why we need to or should swear at or to our students.

    Reply
  2. Jeff Greathouse Avatar
    Jeff Greathouse

    I am in a bubble, I have not seen this trend.

    Reply
    1. Adam McLane Avatar
      Adam McLane

      It could be that I’m just hanging with heathens, too. 

      Reply
  3. chad swanzy Avatar
    chad swanzy

    I’d rather hear a youth pastor drop the “f” bomb than to hear another youth pastor use the words gay, homo, & retard, or worse yet, incorporate stereotype impersonations of them when wanting to make a point.

    In 18 years of youth work I’ve dropped “dumb @$$” one time and probably “what the he11?” about five times. I couldn’t believe I had said it at the time but I never got called on the carpet for it or felt disobedient.

    I probably struggle more internally over the couple times I’ve said “douche” knowing I made half the room uncomfortable. Anyway I guess that’s my thoughts and confessions.

    Reply
    1. Josh Corley Avatar
      Josh Corley

      Good point on the gay, homo, retard, etc…  I’ve never used them with students but have never gotten on to core students to the same degree for using them like I would if someone said the F-word.  Good conversation and point well taken.

      Reply
  4. Adam Wormann Avatar
    Adam Wormann

    I haven’t seen this trend either.  I have seen that people aren’t as offended by curse words, and pastor’s will use them a little more in conversations, but not for shock value and not carelessly.  

    So I guess I haven’t seen the trend on an official level, have seen it on an individual level, and haven’t seen it at all in the context of youth ministry.

    Reply
  5. Avatar
    Anonymous

    We had a short discussion on this in my YMCP group. I think I was the only person there who said they had ever let a profane word fly. I don’t make it a habit, and I definitely exegete my culture when I do. But there are sometimes when I think it’s just more clear to use the words they use. If it’s not offensive to them, then I don’t have a problem with it.

    Having said that, I wonder if this won’t be like the early television ratings where you couldn’t say diarrhea. Crap was pretty close to swearing when I was growing up and was not allowed any more than it’s more salty synonym. 

    The theology of this is wrapped up in “offensive language” or “foul speech.” If this language is neither, I don’t think it is out of bounds.

    Reply
  6. Andrew Tatum Avatar
    Andrew Tatum

    Cursing is simply the way people without lacking skills of creative speech express themselves. It’s not “cool” or even “using the vernacular of the day” — it’s just a debasement of language and lack of creativity. Both of which ought to be offensive to anyone with half a brain.

    Reply
    1. Luke McFadden Avatar
      Luke McFadden

      Yikes!

      Reply
    2. Adam McLane Avatar
      Adam McLane

      I don’t agree with this sentiment wholly but I can see where you are coming from. thanks

      Reply
      1. Andrew Tatum Avatar
        Andrew Tatum

        I guess what I mean is that rather than simply assuming the vernacular of pop culture in a quest to be “relevant” (whatever that means) we ought to be working to make space for God to transform their whole lives – including the way they speak. The point is not that cursing is “dirty” but that it is careless and is usually used to harm and to insult rather than to encourage or build up. If we who work with youth do not consider the impact of our words we might as well pick another line of work.

        Reply
        1. Avatar
          Anonymous

          Unless, of course, I want to tell a student that they’re f*&%ing awesome! Just joking, but I do disagree with the logic a bit. Relevance is a real thing that really means something: sharing a like culture. There is a growing dichotomy between “church world” and “real world” in many churches – and this is super unhealthy. We need to be churches that exist in the real world, where students really live, rather than the utopian “church world” filled with facade and artificiality. I would also disagree with the sentiment that curse words are “dirty” or “careless” in the sense that they’re necessarily derogatory, rather that they lead to an overall carelessness in the way we speak. The book of James talks about “taming the tongue,” a concept which, while pretty abstract, is an excellent picture of what it’s like to keep our mouths in check. The point is that foul language does not mean avoiding four-letter words – it’s overall. It’s avoiding anything that tears people down (I think you were starting to get at that), or as one previous poster mentioned, using words that isolate and alienate people like “homo, fag, gay, retarded, etc..” As to the point of anyone who does not “think about the way they speak … shouldn’t be in ministry at all” – that’s way harsh. We all do it – whether it’s the gossip with other volunteers or staff about the one odd kid in the group, even though it’s in private, or the slip-up of the tongue, or whatever. As for the “cussing Pastor”, I think that might sound like more of a maturity issue than anything else. Not life or death, but something indicative of an issue that may be more serious. Anyways, that’s my two cents on the matter.

          Reply
    3. Dave Avatar
      Dave

      Love it and totally agree with you! We are set apart and I have been in Urban youth ministry for 15 years and never had to do anything but preach the unadulterated word of God to be respected. I have had groups or 150 students to 63 and have always had tight groups that don’t have to act like the world to impact it.

      Reply
  7. Luke McFadden Avatar
    Luke McFadden

    Was in Campolo who popularized this formula:  Insert profanity + awkward pause + guilt about people caring more the explicit than whatever the focus of the message is = powerhouse?

    Not bagging on Campolo, just seems that when I was in undergrad someone pulled that in a chapel service.  The responses were mixed for sure, personally though, it made me think.

    I haven’t seen the trend of profanity in lessons or as common speech with ministers, but I think there is an important discussion to be had about how we respond to those who slip an f-bomb, or use “foul” language within our gathers, specifically the youth.  

    A local homeless pastor cautions people to not be offended by the high usage of profanity, that they should just consider it as punctuation.  He never encouraged it though.  Good post!

    Reply
    1. Ryan Pugh Avatar
      Ryan Pugh

      Campolo: “I have three things I’d like to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. Second, most of you don’t give a shit. What’s worse is that you’re more upset with the fact that I said shit than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night.”

      Reply
  8. John Gruber Avatar
    John Gruber

    One of the values in my context is Ephesians 4:29.  I think there is a difference between using these words as a message point or during conversation, but when these words are used to hurt others, then it becomes a bigger issue for me.

    Reply
  9. JFCrane Avatar
    JFCrane

    I’ve noticed this trend developing over the last few years. The youth find it edgy and cool but, as a youth pastor, I find that edgy and cool soon wear off because what the youth really want is authentic submission to God’s Word and it is our job to model it. Besides, verses like Ephesians 4:29 warn us to watch our mouth.

    Reply
  10. Patrick A. Breck Avatar
    Patrick A. Breck

    I’ve not noticed this trend while in front of the students during small group or teaching times. I have noticed groups of adults who will use the occasional cuss word when talking among themselves during youth events or camps. And I am guilty of dropping a “s” bomb within earshot of students when I nearly dropped a large sign into the middle of a busy street outside our church.

    Reply
    1. Adam McLane Avatar
      Adam McLane

      I think there’s a difference between what we say in front of our peers and what we say in front of our students, agree or disagree? 

      Reply
      1. Klintb Avatar
        Klintb

        No doubt that there is…but should there be?

        Reply
      2. Patrick A. Breck Avatar
        Patrick A. Breck

        I agree completely. Have to be mindful of our audience. Although if we keep it clean among our peers, we won’t have to worry about our conversations in front of students. 

        Reply
  11. Fbccuth Avatar
    Fbccuth

    I don’t think I see this as a popular trend or something I’m worried about.  I don’t think I’ve done it from the stage, and rarely cuss anymore period.  Several comments about vernacular of the day” or “if they (audience) doesn’t find it offensive then it’s ok.  My question is who is your audience? shouldn’t it be God and I’d bet he would find it offensive to associate teaching his Word and the Gospel in this way.  We (pastors/teachers/youth leaders) are to be above reproach and to Let no unwholesome talk come from our mouths.  I don’t think it’s being a prude or old fuddy duddy to not cuss. It’s called being holy, because God is holy and that is who we are emulating, not our society.

    Reply
  12. Klintb Avatar
    Klintb

    Good job with a provocative post…

    I haven’t observed this trend in play during teaching, with students, etc.  I have observed this trend with my close friends who will use an occasional “curse” word.  I’ll do the same.  I can’t say if this is a new development or if this is what mature, understanding Christians have done for a long time and as a guy just under 30, I’m now being exposed to that.  

    But, ultimately, I can’t let it slide.  Sure, I curse from time to time.  I’m not particularly proud of it.  i don’t intend to belittle freedom in Christ or be legalistic or anything like that.  But, I do believe Scripture that says, “But just as he who called you is Holy, so be Holy in all you do.” (1 Peter 1:15)

    It’s not comfortable for me, but its an area of life I should clean up.  Because I also believe Scripture that says, “if anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.” (James 4:17)

    Again, maybe I’m crossing over into legalism.  But I don’t want my 3 year old talking that way, why should I?  Maybe I need to be more creative, articulate and intelligent so I don’t have to resort to language I can’t back up against what God calls me to through Scripture. 

    Reply
    1. Nicole Feltz Alder Avatar
      Nicole Feltz Alder

      I don’t think it’s legalism to read the Bible and try to live your life in the way that it calls us to, that’s called being obedient. I hear so many people justify their actions by saying that Jesus knows my heart, and at least I’m not legalistic. The truth of the matter is that we are called to be a light in the world; we are called to be set apart from the world. We can still be relevant and understand the culture our kids live in without compromising what the Bible clearly tells us not to do. What it comes down to is for every swear word there is a word one could use in place of it. I personally find swear words unnecessary. I am by no means unforgiving on the matter, but I do challenge my students to a higher standard, and I know that they can live up to that standard.

      Reply
  13. Andy Gill Avatar
    Andy Gill

    hm… I’d definitely rather see a student or even a youth pastor curse occasionally, rather then “suffer” from legalism. Though I have in the past years become more conservative on this issue, don’t think we should be telling students to shut the F*&% up… lol (even though that’s kinda funny, but not…)

    But not really worried about this as much as I am legalism or moralistic deism which is far more rampant, and damaging then saying “damn” or “hell”.

    Reply
  14. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Ok, I grew up in a really conservative home.  I’ve moved a long way from some of those beliefs over the years, to be sure.  But I think this is a Biblical issue more than a cultural one.  No, I’m not getting ready to bash anyone.  Ephesians 4:29 has been mentioned.  This passage goes way beyond cursing, to anything that doesn’t build other people up.  In our ministry, we work hard to not let our kids tell each other to “shut up” (without the profanity added).  The reason why is our kids grow up in a rough world, many of them in abusive homes.  I want our group to be a contrast to the rest of the world.  Not a bubble to “protect” them from the world, but a sanctuary, a safe place where they can let their guard down.  Language plays into this BIG time.  While the profanity is part of this, it goes to deeper issues of what we are called to, beyond what we are called away from.  Yeah, as language shifts, the words that are curse words will shift with it.  That is not our issue.  Our issue is how to use every tool at our disposal to create a different environment where kids can see, hear, taste, feel, and know the love and grace of God.  We have such a small window with our students, I think every detail matters.  That’s why we don’t use profanity, and won’t. Instead of trying to see how close we can get to the edge in an effort to be relevant, I’m convinced we need to see how far into a language of truth and love we can run, to shock our kids.  Just my thoughts. 

    Reply
  15. Josh Corley Avatar
    Josh Corley

    I’m admittedly pretty conservative.  I made it a point as a young adult to not use curse words.  I didn’t want to have two different sets of words that I could use in different contexts.  I just worked them out of my vocabulary several years ago.  I honestly can’t remember the last time I said a curse word.  Now, with that being said, I’m sure I say many things that are just as offensive as a curse word.  Chad’s comment about pastor’s using gay, homo, retard, etc… are probably more relevant to many contexts.  While I wouldn’t use them in a message or lesson, I’m guilty of using them with friends and colleagues.  I’m sure for many that is more offensive than me dropping a “f-bomb.”  Definitely makes me stop and think.

    I’ve gotta say if I was at a youth camp or gathering and someone dropped an “f-bomb” from the stage I would be pretty horrified.  I just can’t imagine a circumstance where that could happen.  I think it was Tony Campolo who I first heard swear from the pulpit 8-9 years ago while at a Promise Keepers in Louisville, KY.  He lost the audience when he did it.  It was way too conservative a crowd and while he got everyone’s attention, he also lost credibility to a very conservative PK audience.

    Reply
  16. Michael Hartz Avatar
    Michael Hartz

    In my group we ask the students to give their best effort to curb their “potty mouths” when in the building. I make it a point to remind them that the gym we meet in becomes housing for the Holy Spirit, his teaching and his body whenever we are there.

    I’m by no means a dictator when it comes to mistakes… they happen. Yet I feel that what we do and what we say becomes what our students feel is acceptable to do and say. I admit my flaws to my students, but I don’t parade them around as if they are okay.

    Reply
  17. Matthew McNutt Avatar
    Matthew McNutt

    I think you kept two narrow a set of options at the end. Number one is wrong in my opinion, but number two is only half right. There’s a huge difference in letting the little stuff go (where I do land) and being one of the ones doing it. I might not flip on a kid for swearing, but I won’t swear when I’m teaching. To me that’s a third one, letting the little stuff go while not giving in to it.

    Reply
  18. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Well….I know I’m a bit late to the conversation, but thought it was funny as I dropped the “f bomb” last night at youth group. I wasn’t telling kids to shut the eff up, but it was in response to getting an elbow slammed into my nose as we were playing dodgeball in the dark with strobe lights.

    I thought that was appropriate.

    Honestly? Not a big deal to me…I hear kids using the language, and some of our leaders use somewhat colorful language while talking to other leaders, and sometimes in conversations with students. I am with some of the other folks who commented saying there is a lot of other language that is far more hurtful and inappropriate than a few cuss words.

    That said…I still find it funny when I say “crap” and I get a few kids who look at me like I did just drop the f bomb…

    Reply
  19. Gallagher Avatar
    Gallagher

    I too am late to the conversation, but am admittedly shocked by most of the responses advocating the use of foul language in ANY context. Yes, I’m aware that culture determines the prescribed meanings of words and I’m all for relevance when it comes to ministering to youth. My issue is that Ephesians 4:29 and Colossians 3:8 are clear that these are things the “new man” puts off. What is happening is a backward formulated paradigm where we start with culture and move toward God. The proper paradigm is starting with God and using culture to our advantage (as Paul did in Acts 17 with no scripture references, etc.) Adapting foul language that is perceived as obscene by our culture (ex. movie and tv ratings) would be considered an abuse of the tongue and ultimately our influence to bring kids closer to Christ. And to say that four-letter words are more appropriate than offensive terms like fag and homo is to ignore the inherent problem. BOTH contexts are wrong and should be avoided.

    Reply
  20. threeicys Avatar
    threeicys

    It is now 2015. My son has been in youth for 8 months and notices the same thing. This is very disturbing. The youth minister, when confronted with the issue, states that if he got on their case they wouldn’t want to come. Excuse me but isn’t there such a thing as rules and boundaries? It looks like I need to attend youth with my son, when an adult is near the foul mouth ones don’t vomit their choice words…..they have their parents snowed.

    Reply
  21. Brandon Lund Avatar
    Brandon Lund

    I was just thinking about this. I’m finalizing preparations for an upcoming Disciple Now weekend, and I was wanting to use the scene from Infinity War where the Avengers are fighting the Guardians of the Galaxy to demonstrate that sometimes we enter into fights and conflicts to willingly without knowing the whole situation, but thank you Iron Man for calling somebody a dip@*#$ in the scene. If it were solely up to me, I would use it anyway. I’m in the camp that words are just words and the intention behind them is what really matters. If I utter a profane word in French, it doesn’t have the same meaning for me or those around me. It’s just an arrangement of syllables. I’m not prepared to start dropping F bombs in youth lessons, but I’ve been in the Army now for 12 years, and I’m working toward serving as a Chaplain. I still don’t think it’s appropriate for a Chaplain to swear regularly, but if you’re weird around profanity, you will always be uncomfortable in a military ministry context. That’s my rambling…

    Reply

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